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LEADERSHIP FROM WITHIN
Conversations On The Leading Edge Of Knowledge and Discovery With Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove COPYRIGHT (C) 1998 THINKING ALLOWED PRODUCTIONS Reprinted with permission from Thinking Allowed Productions
MISHLOVE: You know, it's interesting, because in studies of leadership it's hard to find a quality, a characteristic, that will predict who will be a good leader, who will be a bad leader. Some people seem to be extraordinary leaders, and yet you might say they're bastards in a way. And yet I suspect it's this quality, this ability to love, that can make even a nasty person into a good leader. KOUZES: Vince Lombardi, for example -- I believe him, and everybody who was on his football team, when they had a reunion of the Green Bay Packers football team that won three championships and Super Bowls, when they had a reunion and those guys got together -- it was Jerry Kramer, I believe, who wrote in this book about that reunion, and he said that we truly did love each other. Now, these are 250-pound tackles for the Green Bay Packers talking like this, and apparently it was Vince Lombardi's capacity to be tough, to be difficult, sometimes I'm sure obstinate and taciturn and unmoving, unyielding, autocratic, but at the same time he exhibited a caring for his players that other coaches couldn't have come through that toughness. MISHLOVE: Perhaps another word to use might be passion. KOUZES: Yes, absolutely -- passion. And what we found in our study is that followers expect that. I often ask people we talk to, "What's the best way to get somebody to smile?" How would you answer that question? MISHLOVE: To smile. KOUZES: To smile at them. We often say, "We have to light a fire under these people; we have to ignite -- you know, fire in the belly, that's what's important." In Texas, where I spent some time, they had a saying; they used to say, "You can't light a fire with a wet match." Well, if the person is a wet match, how are you going to get the person to smile? How are you going to light a fire under them? Leaders have to exhibit the passion they feel. That's why it's so important to go through that inner journey, to find what it is at your core that you believe strongly in, and exhibit that to other people. That is infectious, and that infectious enthusiasm, energy, and passion will enlist other people, attract them to you. MISHLOVE: And my sense is that we all have that leader within us, we all have that passionate spark that can ignite others, but that sometimes we cover it up; sometimes we're a little bit stingy in sharing ourselves. KOUZES: Well, we suppress it, often. And in our culture, at least in the business culture, it's not appropriate to express it often in business. That's why many people who feel passionately about what they're doing often leave, or only survive in cultures where it's encouraged to be enthusiastic about what you're doing and to try to get other people sold on the idea and have them feel equally with you. But we all remember in school, what are you told to do? You want to jump up and you want to show your enthusiasm, and that's out of place in a quiet classroom environment. We're constantly having people tell us to be quiet. I often say that some managers must have gone to the librarians' school for leadership -- you know, "Shhhhh, people are trying to work around here" -- to keep quiet. Well, no offense to librarians, but yet the message is the wrong message. If it's true that when people do their best they're challenged, excited, enthusiastic, then the last thing as a leader you want to do is not exhibit yourself or get other people to exhibit enthusiasm and passion for what you're about. MISHLOVE: In other words, it would seem as if the heart of leadership is one's ability to just put oneself out there, to express oneself, to show one's commitment. KOUZES: Absolutely. Leading by example is still the best way to lead -- if you strongly believe in something, being an example for what you stand for. But also, I don't want to minimize the importance of leaders understanding their constituents, because at the same time you're expressing your own passion, your own energy, your own sense of the unique and distinctive image you want to reach in the future, you also have to understand what other people want and expect. MISHLOVE: Jim Kouzes, we're out of time now, but it's been such a pleasure sharing your passion for leadership. KOUZES: It all went very quickly, Jeffrey. MISHLOVE: Thanks so much for being with me. KOUZES: You're welcome. Thank you, Jeffrey. END Interview
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